#zhongli theory

[blood-orange-juice]

Meanwhile @letpaimonbitepeople found this:

A currency created by an Extremely Sus god that is used as a catalyst in alchemy and is named after a linguistic time unit? In a world that is shaped by stories and where it's forbidden to investigate the origin of words?

Mr. Zhongli. I have questions.

I was wondering where Chronos was in that game, since the goddess of time is Kairos. Narrative time, not metrical time.

I guess I know now.

[kingskyless]

the grandpas!

art for my video talking about natlan and samsaras

[mondglocke]

I just finished the 4.2 Archon Quest and i can't help but continue to be suspicious of Zhongli for being the only version of him to ever exists in Teyvat.

There are the nameless Bard and Venti.

There are Makoto and Ei.

There are Rukkhadevata and Nahida.

and now Focalors and Furina.

Every Archon has some kind of Double or Doppelganger, or simply a Mirrorself - someone who LOOKS and acts like the first or tries to live the former dreams, goals and ideals. They aren't the only one with their face, there were at some point two of them in Teyvat (As if they were twins, but only one remained...well, in case of makoto and ei that's literally what happend but you get it) There already once was someobody conscious with the Face the current Archon wears.

Except for Zhongli. He is the only one with a face that belongs just to him. There is no counterpart or mirror, no friend or sibling, he didnt split himself into two, his face is unique and yet he is also the only one who keeps it hidden in every cutscene...

[child--ish]

I noticed that I have a very big inclination to see stuff as family, like I see Kazu and Beidou as son and mother (Ning being the other mother) and Lisa and Razor also as mother and son, I also strongly believe that Cyno and Razor 𝗮𝗿𝗲 related in some way, & if that's true, she also can potentially be to Cyno, too! And I see Collei, Nari, and Cyno as like Collei is the sweet younger sibling and Nari is the responsible, (sassy) older sibling that takes care of the other (and Cyno is the older sibling's boyfriend that just hangs out and the other sibling loves them [platonicly], which is mutual) or as parents to Collei! I also hope with all my heart that Ei and Scara will be happy some day. Oh, and ALSO, I see Xiao, Hu Tao, Zhongli (Ganyu is also thrown in the mix) as a happy family. And Diluc and Kaeya as adopted bros. oh, oh! and Furina and Neuvi as father and daughter.

So, yeahhh, a BIG tendency to see stuff as family–

Also! for those who like Zhongli fam here

It's a fic about them with a little bit of chili sprinkled in =)

[mojomcm-fandom]

Edit: Now that it's not late at night and I have my laptop out, I'm editing this so it sounds less like the ramblings of a madwoman (tho there's a limited amount I can do seeing as it is, in fact, the ramblings of a madwoman lol). Also formatting and clarity and any additional theories/headcanons/whatever I think of while editing this.

Partly crack, partly copium, but I've got some theories/crossover/au thing going on that I wanted to write down so here goes:

Crack/Copium/Theories:

All 3 of the trailblazer kids are actually "dead" aeons.

Stelle/Caelus: Akivili (Herta makes us LARP as Akivili in Hertian Realm and we're known as the Trailblazer while Akivili is known as the Trailblaze so idk I know the player character looks like Nanook but they ain't dead soooo...)

Dan Heng: Long (maybe the High Elder Vidyadhara is actually Long's own reincarnation but they have no idea bc memory wipe. TBH makes no sense for the Permanence to be dead)

March 7th: Idrila (this one's a bit of a stretch so bear with me. The Aeon of Beauty could be HoHe Elysia expy and March is also kinda Elysia expy so ??? And March was froze in ice without memory so it's totally possible that's Idrila's mysterious disappearance)

Also:

Sampo is Aha. He gives strong vibes of being a Masked Fool in canon, but I think it'd be funny if he's actually the Elation.

Pom-pom was created by Akivili to protect the Express after Aha blew it up. Pom-pom is also a proficient marksman. This is bc of some canon evidence alluding to Pom-pom actually being really powerful (Yanqing and Welt both make mention of it iirc) and the engine of the train looking like a revolver. (Also headcanon that the Astral Express itself was made from one of Akivili's twin revolver pistols. Perhaps the other has the ability to summon the train?)

Lan has not and will not kill Yaoshi bc yin-yang/life and death balance and also bc what is a hunter without prey. The Hunt had no issue killing the Propagation, so this seems like the most reasonable reason why the Hunt has been after the Abundance so long without killing them.

On aeons and the relations between paths (I might end up making a relationship chart?):

Death Aeons: Nanook is unnatural death (think murder, natural disaster, etc.), while IX is natural entropic death (like degradation from aging), Lan is controlled, balanced death (think like hunters/predators keeping ecosystem in balance), and Oroboros is the death caused by one's own greed (think pollution, overconsumption). Terminus is the end of time and final death of the universe.

Life Aeons: Tayzzyronth is overabundant life (think how invasive species population boom bc outcompeting native species for resources), Yaoshi is overabundant continuation of life (think unnaturally prolonged life), and Long is eternity (without change or growth, entropy comes for all).

Mythus and Nous are polar opposites in path direction. Akivili is midway between the two (to trailblaze is to turn the unknown into the known).

Some paths are directly at odds with each other (opposite directions), some paths have overlap (too much overlap leads to one path consuming the other like with Ena and Xipe), and some paths are neutral (running perpendicular to the others). Mostly this matters in relation to pathstriders who walk multiple paths, as it is extremely unlikely to find, for example, someone simultaneously walking both the path of the Hunt and the Abundance.

Hooh's is the ultimate neutral path. Akivili's is also a fairly neutral path, though slight odds with Mythus's (to seek to make the unknown known doesn't really work with the idea nothing can be known) and maybe Aha (just bc Aha is a jerk and like Herta said, surely Akivili would've taken offense to Aha blowing up the Express). Idrila, Xipe, Fuli, Aha, and Qlipoth also have relatively neutral paths, though Qlipoth and Fuli are at odds with Nanook and Mythus. Xipe sometimes does not get along with Aha, if Aha is being particularly antagonistic.

Crossover/AU (Genshin):

Traveler and twin are Akivili (one soul two bodies, don't think too hard about it). Akivili is presumed dead by HSR universe bc Sustainer of Heavenly Principles imprisoned Akivili on Teyvat (a world at the fringes of the known universe/Yggdrasil/Irmunsul/Imaginary Tree). Claiming that they are siblings is far easier to explain than that they are two halves of the same god.

Zhongli/Morax is a high elder (do non-high elders have the ability to turn fully into dragons? are there any high elders who are not Dan Heng? idk) vidyadhara who arrived on Teyvat shortly before rebirth. Idk weird Teyvat magic or something made his rebirth cycle this time 10x longer than normal (should only be 600-700 years between rebirth and he's canonically 6000 years old). He is unaware of anything HSR related bc memory wipe from rebirth and nobody around to explain things.

The Imaginary Tree in HI3 and HSR and Irminsul in Genshin are the same tree (Yggdrasil), but some may only be branches of the other

So yeah, stay tuned to see HoYo prove my theories and headcanons wrong in the upcoming years.

[spunkykirby]

Oh wait.

Based on Neuvillette's line about Ei, he'd be primarily judging the Archons' actions that took place after they've accepted the Authorities, not before, because before taking the Authorities, they wouldn't be classified as Usurpers he needed to judge.

"As a survivor of the dragon race who has regained my full dragonhood, I must fulfill my oaths and obligations even if it means returning all the water in the oceans back to the heavens. In taking the Authority of Electro, the Narukami placed herself on the list of the usurpers, she will..."

"But wouldn't this mean he's incapable of judging the Heavenly Principles' actions before they stole the Authorities too??!?!??"

No.

He knows by now the current Archons had nothing to do with directly stealing the Authorities from the Sovereigns, therefore they can't be charged with that crime. The direct stealing and m-rdering of the Sovereigns and their Authorities was committed by PO and his Shades alone. Therefore, only they can be charged with crimes/actions committed before they got their Authorities (because during their time usurping they didn't have the authorities, they were unrightfully battling for it).

"Wwell they STILL accepted the Authorities, therefore that makes them guilty by association!"

Then they'd all be automatically declared guilty without need for trial. That'd not only make no sense but there'd be no use for a trial.

In regards to their potential crimes, he'd more than likely (at most) be able to charge them with the charge he gave to Childe: Tangential Liability. This basically means an individual is held responsible for the actions or consequences indirectly related to their own actions or omissions.

In other words, it involves liability that arises from a secondary or collateral involvement in a situation, rather than direct participation or causation. The secondary and collateral involvement is (should be) in reference to the actions they've committed only after becoming Official Usurpers (like HP) re:accepting the Authority.

After all, the judgement of Childe did not refer to the actions he partook in before waking the whale, but after. Same applies to the archons and when they took the authorities.

Now idk if they knew the basis of the thrones before accepting them (unlikely, because before they did, their knowledge of the thrones was more than likely the same as Orobashi's: none. Orobashi was only sentenced to death after learning of the true history without having the "right" to know that info i.e. not having the Authority. The Archons likely would've been given the same sentence should they have learned before gaining the right to the knowledge as well...unless they're exceptions who had other ways of guaranteeing their silence).

[ceruleanvermillion]

Circumstances of Guizhong's Death

90% sure something's up with Guizhong's death because weapon lore is basically from the devs and is therefore reliable and yet it contradicts Cloud Retainer's account and cutscene and why in the world would Cloud Retainer of all people lie??? But her retelling doesn't really line up and Zhongli WON'T SAY ANYTHING. Mihoyo is definitely doing this with intention, because they have an eye for details. Also the yakshas appearing in the cutscene makes the timeline... Super weird???

anyway here's a list

Cloud Retainer said this: "Guizhong was overpowered by the enemy, and fell in battle. When Streetward Rambler and I arrived at the scene at long last, all that remained among the ruins... was her lifeless body."

This has several implications: CR and Ping found her when she was already dead. Her body was what was left. There were surrounded by ruins. She also fell in battle. (we don't actually who found her *first*, since the cutscene depicted everyone being there. However the phrase used was "all that remained...lifeless body" implying CR and Ping found her like that.)

SPEAKING OF THE CUTSCENE. We see her being basically petrified/turned into a statue. Again, everyone was there, even the Yakshas, and Zhongli. There was this magic shape thing above her in the cutscene, we dont know what it is. But when it played, there was this glitch effect and we see this:

again, we don't know what it is or why the devs chose to add that funky glitch effect.

WHY THIS IS WEIRD AND IMPORTANT? This is a quote from what Memory of Dust weapon lore says: "He also remembers those words she spoke at the end — again, amid the Glaze Lilies."

This alone partly contradicts CR. Glaze Lilies. Not ruins. Okay, but there could've been some ruins from battle. So this is not complete evidence. However, something else caught my eye.

this being: Zhongli was with Guizhong in her final moments.

Another very important quote: "Her final smile was a lonely one, even as her form dissolved into the finest dust. "It seems that our journey together has come to an end. As for that stone dumbbell, forget about it, would you?""

And also this: ""If you can unlock it—" Many years passed, and he was never able to unlock that dumbbell, nor would he ever learn what might have followed that sentence."

Again, according to this, Zhongli was with Guizhong in her final moments. He heard her last words. He was there/already there before she died, she was not dead yet when he was with her.

(what might've implied in this description: That Zhongli and Guizhong were alone and no one else was there, because no other persons were mentioned. Again, this is while likely is also tentative, because there was no explicit mention. This way Zhongli might've found her first.)

What matters was that there was no way they found her at the state of *already dead*. Because according to MoD, "Her Form Dissolved into the finest dust." She's turning to dust even before dying. There shouldn't have been a body to find if she literally dissolved into dust. This is Direct Contradiction from CR's account and the cutscene, which depicted her body as stone/petrified. In Memory of Dust weapon lore, Guizhong's last words were cut-off, meaning even Zhongli didn't hear everything she was going to say. This was the moment of her death- the moment she likely had completely dissolved into dust was when she was still talking to Zhongli.

Let's review

According to CR: She fell in battle, they found her body, already dead, among the ruins.

According to MoD: When she died, Zhongli was with her. He heard her last words. She dissolved into dust.

Contradictions:

In MoD lore, her form dissolved into dust but cutscene + CR said they found her body and that she was turned to stone.

They found her body among ruins/scene of battle according to CR but in MoD she died among the Glaze Lilies.

Yaksha timeline weird

Arguable/tentative/still really vague stuff: According to CR she fell in battle because she was "overpowered by the enemy"- how did that happen if Zhongli was there according to MoD? He's still alive, after all. Also ngl they had a moment™️when she died because he had heard her last words- shouldn't he be fighting lmao??? Also shouldn't the glaze lilies be destroyed by battle?

TLDR There was no way CR and Ping would've found her body if we're going purely by what was explicitly mentioned in MoD. Vice Versa, there was no way MoD scenario would have worked out the way it allegedly did if we're going by CR's account.

also what in the world was that thing that was supposedly contained in the cutscene? The one in the third picture above.

Theories.

Obviously, this means that we should not take these accounts at face value. Either *something else happened that we still don't know* OR *Only one of these accounts was right*. So there's like a bunch of theories abt this. Anyway these are just some of them.

Maybe one could argue that Zhongli petrified her body after she died and dissolved, and that both accounts are technically right. But again, such a thing was *never* mentioned by either sources. is it even possible to do such a thing? Also why in the world would he feel the need to construct a whole fake scenario instead of just telling CR and Ping? Did something happen that made him think he has to?

Irminsul mind-wipe. This one is vague but Sumeru made it a possible option. However, why? why should they erase her? What did she do, what happened? They did put a glitch effect- so was that a creative choice or where they alluding to it? Also, again, what was that thing they were containing in the cutscene? also what's inside memory of dust and why did she ask zhongli to forget it?

In MoD we see Guizhong say two contradicting things. She told Zhongli to forget about MoD. but later it seemed like she was about to tell him the opposite. We don't know what she said because she unfortunately was dead.

Some people theorized that Zhongli might've killed Guizhong himself, because of the lines in Jade cutter weapon lore. Again, why? they were close up to her death, as mentioned by MoD. If that happened, why?

So, thoughts?

[burningparadiseduck]

There’s a misconception that Venti and Zhongli are the only original archons and that is technically untrue.

Ei ruled jointly with her twin sister so she was the archon from the beginning. Only the public didn’t know about both of them existing.

Rukkhadevata created Nahida but the timeline was completely changed by the Irminsul so now she never existed so that makes Nahida the original ruler of sumeru.

That rule only applies to Fontaine since Egeria, being the original hydro archon, is actually dead.

[zashaownsaholylyre]

“Zhonglis Appointment?”

In this very specific scene in the Liyue archon quest, Zhongli asked us to come to the restaurant in the evening for an "appointment".

More surprising to me is that Zhongli actually paid for everything?!?!

Honestly, I'm in deep shock. Considering Zhongli never paid a dime when we were gathering things for the Liyue Archon Quest.

But you know what? The more I think of it, maybe Zhongli is just trying to make up for the inconveniences he has brought upon us. Maybe he asked us out on this so-called "appointment" just to apologize to us.

Besides all that, I think it's kind of nice of Zhongli to pay for all the meals we have consumed at our so-called "appointment".

Well if it is an apology, I think it's such an acceptable apology.

»Video creds: @childeswaistband on TikTok«

Screenshot by: me :>

[aoxizu]

ok if you think about it zhongli is single-handedly responsible for the flow of currency from rich people (the northland bank)'s pockets back into the local economy (whoever had a historical artifact to sell that day)

zhongli is the reason why trickle-down economics works in liyue, as the money is trickling down from childe and the northland bank into the merchants and regular people of liyue, so as the rich get richer the poor will be brought up alongside because zhongli will be able to spend more

and also the us federal reserve aims for a 2% inflation rate, so zhongli's spending habits from when he had mora could just be him regulating inflation of the liyuean economy

so actually zhongli is great with money and he is supporting an entire economic theory all by himself

without zhongli liyue's economy would get significantly more top-heavy and the wealth disparity gap would increase

i would love to see a whole breakdown on liyue's economy like are their workers unionized do they know what a union is or are they still operating under like serfdom or something

[stainedglassthreads]

Theory About Who Has the Gnosis

My theory about who presently has the Hydro Gnosis, and who the true Hydro Archon is, is that it's...still Furina, actually. Just not the Furina we've been interacting with so far.

"Okay what the hell are you on about now, Glass--" So glad you asked, dearest darling readers!

So one thing I've been utterly obsessed with in Genshin is how every Archon(except Zhongli) has a dead doppelganger that makes them depressed. Venti has the Nameless Bard(modeled his form based off them), Ei has Makoto(identical twins), Nahida has Rukkhadevata(used the same model when they finally got to speak with each other, adult Rukkhadevata looked like an older Nahida)

So this sets up for Furina, Murata, and the Tsaritsa possibly having their own doppelgangers. As such my theory is that Furina's doppelganger is actually currently still alive, and is the holder of the Gnosis. Furthermore, it is actually Furina's memories of the Gnosis and certain knowledge required for being and acting like an Archon 'given consciousness'. This other-Furina (we'll just call THIS one Focalors to prevent confusion) is probably also the one who's been gathering Indemnitum and figuring out plans to deal with the Prophecy while our Furina keeps the populace calm and entertained, hence why Furina is so confident that she can deal with the prophecy, to the point the Traveler doesn't think she's putting on an act anymore, but can't actually answer any of Arlecchino's questions during the Archon Quest. That was her 'original, complete self' briefly shining through.

As for how such a thing is possible...Furina actually strikes me as pretty competent, if anxious and insecure, when she sets her mind to something, and seems to have some sort of specialty in information gathering. She's good enough at it that she's the first Archon to figure out where the Traveler is going, and set agents to inform her of our arrival so she can make a grand entrance literally minutes after we entered her nation--without Archon powers. It's also very interesting how, despite how Makoto and Rukkhadevata have left things behind, the things they leave behind tend to be restricted to their nations. They even both died within their nations But the place where Egeria died...is in Sumeru. Just within the border, yeah. And it does do a lot of work in setting up Fontaine lore to hype us up. But...it feels a little weird to me that Egeria didn't die within Sumeru.

I wonder if it's a hint that shortly after becoming an Archon, but before Rukkhadevata's death, Furina asked Rukkhadevata to use the Irminsul Tree to help her with something--namely, to help her pull off the ultimate performance. I think that Furina might be the ultimate method actor--what better way of hiding one's Gnosis and disguising one's true plans, after all, than wiping your own memories so that, even if someone interrogates you you can't give up your Gnosis' location or what's necessary for your plans, and even if you're killed by an assassin capitalizing on the opportunity, 'another you' can keep working away at all the issues, and everyone now knows there's someone after the Archon/Gnosis.

Of course, this does mean that Furina's plan may have backfired a little. If this is true, then she's a great decoy...but she's also got a self-inflicted inferiority complex, and is so afraid of admitting that she's weak, confused, and helpless that she can't even admit to Neuvilette someone made an attempt on her life.

I already talked once about Furina, Ei, and Nahida all being foils for each other, where they end up isolated due to being in the shadow of their predecessors, and feeling they're not equipped to do a good job. But if this is true, and Furina created a Focalors-doppelganger, then Furina is also standing in the shadow of her own self. It'd also be incredibly interesting if, while Nahida had to erase memories to move out from Rukkhadevata's shadow, Furina has to regain them--and it'd also have some interesting implications about why Rukkhadevata chose to erase herself, too. Because maybe she got the idea from someone else...

"This is all well and good, but wait, where's Focalors then?"

Ah, this one I actually think most people have already guessed correctly. What's a machine that creates and gathers indemnitum, that's powered by a belief in justice, which Furina supposedly built but doesn't seem to understand(anymore), which apparently spoke to Lyney when he tried infiltrating the Opera Epiclese to examine it, and which Neuvilette ultimately chose to respect the judgment of when it gave a verdict different to his?

Suffice to say. Much like how Elynas chose to appear as a Melusine and Rukkhadevata appeared as Nahida...I think we'll get to chat with the Oratrice in a dreamspace and it will appear as Focalors.

[mxrdkvnst]

Well, hello, this is my first time making a post, but my intrusive thoughts won last night.

So i have a question for all of you because i'm not wrapping my head around it.

So, i finished Fontaine's quest and i started to think about the Dragon Sovereigns. All easy and cool until my mind went "waitwaitwait, but who is the Geo Dragon Sovereign?"

Because until now i went on straight with Azhdaha as an answer since, you know, he's a big chonky dragon made of rocks.

Then, a flash in my mind: he can't be the Dragon Sovereign since Zhongli created him personally.

I've seen it in thousand of edits, the scene where Morax takes out the circular rock and baby Azhdaha pops out.

And we know that Dragon Sovereigns are older than Celestia itself (who stole their powers to give it to the Seven) or something like that, so the temporal line is all messed up.

Now, we're back at not having a Geo Sovereign.

And at this point my brain went "well, but you know who else looks like a dragon and is geo? Morax"

So... is Zhongli the Dragon Sovereign AND an Archon or am i projecting too much?

Please, if anyone as a theory or informations that i'm missing tell me about it because this thoughts are scratching my brain

[ghostiebooo]

why morax is totally the shade of life a google doc by yours truly

after all these years........ i finished my doc....... i believe with like 99% certainty that morax aka rex lapis aka zhongli is the SHADE OF LIFE and ive made a google doc about it !!! i put a lot of heart and soul into this so i hope it reaches people and they like it because genshin lore is something that i really enjoy so :3 have fun reading please at first i posted this to reddit because i thought people there would like it but they were mean to me about things i quite literally go over in the doc so i think that was my mistake for thinking they had media literacy i mean whaaat there are a few leaks if youre worried but not a lot, only what i thought was relevant. :3 message me if you have anything you think i should add to the doc!!!!

(in the tone of find my pages) read my magnum opus

[spunkykirby]

huh...haven't heard a whiff of those "jOhN lEe cOulDnt POSSIBLY b aN eleMenTal BeiNg bCuz...AzhDahuH!" ever since this was released...

All the Adepti of Liyue are confirmed to be pure elemental beings, and are beings whose creation had nothing to do with the gods (beings who are elemental but can only wield elements outside of themselves and not from within are beings related to the Primordial One, gods, and the general human realm...but Adepti and their elemental physiology has nothing to do with them, very similarly to the special fungus in Nahida's quest).

[ceruleanvermillion]

Have mentioned this before at some point- but it's really quite fascinating that we don't often hear about Zhongli lore from zhongli himself. It's always some third party, like Azhdaha or Cloud Retainer, or at the very least hearing from a conversation with someone else. But it's always someone else telling us, almost never Zhongli himself- we don't hear about his own past from his own mouth. This mean that we barely ever get to hear Zhongli's perspective on things.

Not to mention the fact that the guy just. never tells us anything??? We literally don't know anything about his origins- we aren't even sure of what he actually is??? Like. Zhongli. where do you come from. what do you know. what was in those contracts. Zhongli origin theories go wild.

Ah, not to forget the Memory of Dust. Like what is in that thing, why did Guizhong entrust it to him, why is it that she seems to want him to open it but also at the same time she want's him to forget it? If he is, in fact, one of the eldest living beings in teyvat who has the best memories- then are there things that only he remembers? are there things that only he know the truth of? are there things that he is the last person to remember?

[trashcanwithsprinkles]

What’s your favorite bit of lore? Or favorite holiday/festival in genshin they’re pretty neat

i'm absolutely biased towards lantern rite tbh

as for bit of lore, i'm not really sure. i feel like 'bit of lore' is really weird to define, bc ultimately most lore is all connected into bigger pictures. obviously i'm partial towards liyue lore in general, but as for a specific little bit...

probably still the possibility that zhongli is partial to archery.